Surprised by the intensity of the uproar over a conservative nun’s remarks about homosexuality to students at Charlotte Catholic High School? You shouldn’t
be.
It’s part of a cultural war within American Catholicism pitting
traditionalists – including many bishops – against those who want to see changes
in the church.
Headline: U.S. Catholic bishops cast the Affordable Care Act
as an attack on religious liberty, citing provisions to include
contraceptives.
And yet: A 2012 Gallup poll found that 82 percent of
American Catholics consider birth control “morally acceptable.”
Headline: U.S. Catholic bishops help lead campaigns to ban
same-sex marriage.
And yet: About half of American Catholics say gays and
lesbians should be allowed to marry, according to a 2012 Pew poll. That’s up
from 40 percent who said so in 2001.
Headline: U.S. Catholic bishops stand by celibacy
requirement for priests.
And yet: In a 2013 Pew poll, 58 percent of American
Catholics said letting priests marry was a good idea; 35 percent said it was a
bad idea.
Headline: U.S. Catholic bishops feud with President Barack
Obama on a host of issues.
And yet: Obama won the Catholic vote in 2012 (50 percent to
Mitt Romney’s 48 percent) and in 2008 (54 percent to John McCain’s 45
percent).
Given this division, it’s easier to understand the polar-opposite reactions
to the local storm that followed Sister Jane Dominic Laurel’s remarks at
Charlotte Catholic.
Most parents who spoke up at a meeting with high school officials last week
criticized the sister and the chaplain who invited her. But Bishop Peter Jugis,
who heads the Diocese of Charlotte, found major fault only with parents who had
exhibited a “lack of charity.”
Traditionalist Catholics are quick to point out that Catholicism is not and
never has been a democracy. It’s a hierarchical church, they say, with the pope
in Rome and bishops around the world explaining and enforcing church doctrines
and rules.
But a big percentage of the flock, at least in the United States, also
consider the church a community. And they’re hoping that Jugis and his fellow
U.S. bishops will start to take seriously Pope Francis’ recent suggestion that
leaders do more listening.
-- Tim Funk
Friday, April 11, 2014
Catholic civil war hits Charlotte
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30 comments:
Galileo, Copernicus, geocentrism. And those are just the tip of the iceberg (on a flat earth).
You know, when you profess a faith and support a religion, there are consequences. As a Catholic, I applaud actually teaching what the Church professes even when uncomfortable. Unlike many religious organizations, the Catholic Church wears its beliefs on its sleeves and is prolific in writing it down with its reasoning. If you are discerning and seek out the Church, it should not surprise you when its beliefs are contrary to the whims of man.
To the non traditional Catholics. Where in Bible does it say it is OK for a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman? How many verses in the Bible condemn relations between same sex men and women. The Bible is quite clear that these relationships are sinful.
First of all, the Catholic church should never promote the labeling of people, even if the people desire to be labeled. In this case certain individuals are requesting to be labeled after a sex act. Second we are just talking about one sin. The Catholic church can and will talk about sin. Why is this particular sex act a sin worth mentioning? Because it is one of many sins mentioned in the bible. Let's not make too much of this - we all sin - but the Catholic church also is on earth given the power to forgive sins as well (as is every believer).
So many folks who do not like religion, or even those who follow it, know so much about how those who do should act.
The bible also says we shouldn't cut our hair or associate with woman while they have their periods but we've been doing that for hundreds of years. The problem isn't that the church doesn't accept homosexuality it's that the school had a seminar without notifying parents, the same parents who have to sign a permission slip to let their children see a PG 13 movie at the school and that the sisters speech was about God not loving homosexuals and it being the parents fault that people are gay. On top of that she "wasn't qualified to give that speech" (words from her own college.) We who send our cvhildren to Catholic school do so for numerous reasons but not one single person sends them to be taught hate and discrimination. Father Kauth should be embarrassed that he tried to pull one over on the administation of the school with a bait and switch as to what the seminar was really about. Bishop Jugis will be reminded of this when his pocketbook is running light because of the number of people who send their children to Catholic school get tired of being called sinners when the angry chaplin who was at fault isn't remprimanded at all.
Tim Funk has no understanding of Catholicism. The very first lesson of the Balitomore Catechism says it all:
Q: Why did God create you?
A: To know Him, love Him and serve Him in this world and be happy with him in the NEXT.
Mr. Funk and others want is all right now - instant happiness - a world where sin is good and vice is honored over virtue. The Catholic Church can't help you with that and if you don't like it leave. The rules don't change halfway through the game.
Amen
One would hope that the bishops would have learned at least one thing through the child molestation crisis: that they should listen more and talk less, and that the top-down approach won't get them where they want to go. Catholics are among the best educated people in the country (in part thanks to the Catholic school system)- they are not going to turn off their brains to fall back into the mythical "pray, pay and obey" role that some clerics seem to yearn for. A democracy, no. But there is a "sensus fidelium" where the Church as the People of God will decide what teaching resonates with their faith.
Some folks think the rigid hierarchical organizational system and inviolate dogma of the Church represents a rock of stability for 2000 years. That is a gross misrepresentation of history.
The world endured a dark age that lasted for thousand years because of the desire for the Roman Catholic priesthood to stifle scientific and technological progress. Peasants in medieval Europe were prohibited from learning to read & write, under penalty of death, lest they read the Bible themselves and get their OWN ideas about God's will. And let's not even mention the Inquisition, or the deliberate genocide of indigenous races in the new world. Oh, and there was that whole Crusade thing. Catholics don't like to talk about those things. It tarnishes the brand.
The Priesthood was aided in this repression by their allies in the monarchies of Europe. It was all about control and power. It still is, as this incident so clearly illustrates. The good Sister had no idea what she was talking about (single parent households and masturbation cause homosexuality? Really?), yet talk she did. No wonder so many parents were upset.
The Church no longer puts people to death for heresy. Why is it so terrible that it now bend to modern sensibilities with regard to issues that are not remotely the same as they were 2000, 1000, or even 500 years ago? If it wants to survive and stay relevant, it better learn, and adapt to a modern world with which certain of its treasured beliefs are seriously out of touch.
Contraception is here to stay. Gay people are here to stay and will soon enjoy equal civil rights under the law, including the right to marry the person they love. Women have been granted equal rights in society and deserve equivalent equal leadership rights in the Church.
Celibacy, not homosexuality, is the REAL unnatural act, and the recent deplorable scandals the Church has had to endure, should leave no further doubt about that. That requirement, too, needs to change. The best thing a good Catholic can do now is to hasten that internal revolution and usher the Church back to it's core mission of comfort and aid to their flock's spiritual and financial needs.
The marriage issue - a distinction should always be made between civil union (aka "marriage" in political dialogue) and marriage by God. Legislation can't dictate the latter, but it can allow the former. Folks get hung up about it being called marriage in legislation, when that really doesn't matter - civil union's are a secular decision that only impact secular benefits. Only a very small minority ever debate whether the catholic definition of religion should ever change. Legislation has ZERO impact on whether you can be married in a catholic church or not. This distinction gets lost on "holier than thou" arguments. Separation of Church and State, right.
Without sin, there is no religion. Applaud it.
Jugis, he's the Bishop who doesn't even show up to address the Charlotte Catholic parents meeting when the uproar occurs? Decided attending a dedication service in the mountains was more important? Send an underling instead? Hmmm.....
Pretty simple really....if you don't agree with the Catholic viewpoint, do not go to Catholic schools.
If only "real" Catholics should attend Catholic schools and churches, then the Bishop and the diocese should only accept donations from "real" Catholics...This will blow over, parents will be appeased because the Bishop will never give up the dough provided by those more progressive than he. If CCHS is taken over by Kauth and the other Dark Agers, it will empty out and so will the Diocesan coffers...Not happening..As for the contraception issue, lots of hypocrisy going on there...but I guess you can practice contraception, go to confession and then go condemn others for it till next saturday when you can confess again..
I have a child at CCHS and the sad part as I have read comments from the far right and far left is that they both either have no clue or choose to ignore what the parents at CCHS were upset with. Funk has done a good job at staying on track. We were upset with vile things being said as to what causes one to be gay (when it is an unknown issue), and Father Kauth having pulled a fast one. Father Kauth was upset last fall at a poor turn out at the Siter's lecture and sent an email that devolved into accusing the parents of being bad parents for not dropping everything on a school night to attend. I communicated this to him and he was "less than charitable" in his response. The Biship needs to talk to him about his style.
To those devote Catholics that keep siting the Bible as to the Church's stance on homosexuality, please confess to your sins of not following all of the dictates of the Bible - read Leviticus.
Yes, the Church has decided to pick and choose over time what to follow, but Jesus preached the Old Testiment. So, as the Church justifies stances that do not follow the Bible word for word, it indirectly says that Jesus was wrong which is contrary to the position that Jesus was correct.
Please recognize that while God made man, man made religion.
Dear Anon @ 8:03......your comments are exactly why the overwhelming percentages of "Catholics" disagree with every single issue mentioned in the article that the "Church" supports. MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON A BUNCH OF FAIRY TALES THAT WERE "RECORDED" SOME 500 YEARS AFTER THEY "HAPPENED" (i.e., a book of fiction written in order for the "church" to have a "clock" of people that could be "controlled" by said book of fiction)......IS LUDICROUS.
If you can't tell RIGHT from WRONG in 2014 (much less if you can't tell what the actual JESUS would think) about issues that are mentioned in the article.........YOU HAVE LOGIC ISSUES, AND THERE IS A REASON YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY. The Church is WRONG on every single issue mentioned! And that, my friend, is why there has been a mass exodus from the Catholic church for the last several decades. EVOLVE MY FRIEND.....EVOLVE.
Judging from the many "anon" comments,even though it's 2014,there is still a lot of anti-Catholic hatred out there.
Amen to Anon @ 11:24
Amen to anon @ 11:39!
Why do so many people obsess over the Catholic Church? You either choose to be Catholic or you don't. You either choose to follow Her teachings or you don't. She doesn't force anyone to attend church or pay tuition. She doesn't prevent you from using porn or getting an abortion. She would if she could but she can't. All She does is tell you what is best for us and try to explain why so that we step away from the edge. She also informs us of the repercussions of our choices both in this life and in eternity and I guess that is our hang up. We don't want the accountability. We'd rather be ignorant of the consequences. I love my Catholic faith. She has the Truth and is unwavering in it. She has the surest way to Heaven and offers it to everyone. She has the BEST answer to the questions we all ponder about our human condition. She takes every verse of the Bible and offers it to us the way Jesus intended in a practical, beautiful, life changing way. If you are Catholic, live your faith to the fullest of Catholic Church teaching and you will NEVER be disappointed with the outcome. If you choose not to, please don't insist that She conform to your ideology. Deutoronomy 30:15-19.
"Anonymous said... Judging from the many "anon" comments,even though it's 2014,there is still a lot of anti-Catholic hatred out there. APRIL 11, 2014 AT 11:39 AM"
Hmmm... Shared by an anonymous commenter...
"As a Catholic, I applaud actually teaching what the Church professes even when uncomfortable."
Interesting. What the CHURCH professes? I thought your religion was about what GOD professes.
Look around the world. The nations where the government is controlled by one religion or another are the most primitive or the most crazy.
Isn't it interesting that people can see the fallacy of OTHER religions while believing, without doubt, their own?
People used to believe in many other gods just as fervently as you believe in yours.
Tim Funk. Proud Former Catholic. I wouldn't be so proud of that Timmy. As you should know Catholicism is Christ's only actual church. All the graces that come with being a Catholic really helps. Not to mention Christ actually founded the Catholic Church. Not some lustful crazy madman or a hipster that built a million dollar church in Waxhaw. Anyone not in line with the Catholic teachings and claims to be Catholic... need to get to reconciliation pronto. Tim you are a former Catholic, but you prefer praise and worship, we get it. You are articles are terrible
Jesus "founded" the Roman Catholic Church? What? Did He also come up with the outrageous pomp? Did He wear robes braided with gold thread? Did He wear berettas or Red Prada shoes? Did He speak Latin? Did He come up with dispensations or annulments?
Nah, didn't think so.
To anonymous at 3:42
You really need to brush up on your history.
In reality, Jesus did not begin any church other than to preach the Old Testament as part of the Jewish faith. The Disciples preached his teachings and groups splintered off. The actual foundation of the Catholic Church as we would recognize it today did not begin until Constantine established made it so around 313 AD. The first Pope was probably Leo 1 in 440-461 AD although some claim that Gregory I was the first 590-604 AD.
Clearly the Church keeps changing over time. It was one time illegal to give mass in anything other than Latin and people such as Jan Hus were burned at the state by the Church for attempting to do so.
The Church keeps changing and will continue to change in the future. All religions must do this.
"I thought your religion was about what GOD professes."
Someone needs to look up what professes means. Google has a good definition. It's the Church that "professes" its belief in one, true God. I guess with so many gods walking around today proclaiming their belief in themselves this is may be a point of order many will not understand.
"Look around the world. The nations where the government is controlled by one religion or another are the most primitive or the most crazy."
Your welcome. Most "enlightened," multicultural, and free societies come from a Judeo-Christian root. Science, education, and expression are not the antithesis of the Catholic Church. In many cases, advancements in these areas originated in the Church.
If you are a Catholic and disagree with the Church, why do you remain a member. This is from a former Catholic who finally realized that accepting claims without evidence is unwise.
The young people attending St. Dominic's lecture likely can discern fact from fiction. And, the situation at Charlotte Catholic has been addressed. Parents will be notified, students will have options to leave assemblies, etc. What Father Kauth and Father Reid are failing to see is that these students (and likely their parents) are largely represented in the statistics representing more progressive and modern thinking and do not see a place for themselves in the Church. Like their parents who might continue to attend out of a sense of obligation, these teenagers will not continue to follow; they will leave.
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